They're very loyal to what the handler which makes them very dangerous to everyone else. I can't tell you what you saw but it sounds like a mountain lion. So when we hear mountain lion there's also cougar there's wild cat there's Bobcat which is not a mountain lion maybe Patrick could you sort of spell out the different terms which are synonymous and which are completely different animals. To date most of the pictures that have been sent in have been bobcats and other species Ive received pictures of house cats. So this whole illegal pet trade black market pro trade thing does does exist in a situation like that can happen. He shifted gears in 2016 and began producing Outside/In, a podcast and radio show about the natural world and how we use it. His work has won him several awards, including two regional Edward R. Murrow awards, one national Murrow, and the Overseas Press Club of America's award for best environmental reporting in any medium. When they were landing or taking off and it seems like it's been there for like. We we hear that there is allegedly a government conspiracy to deny the existence of mountain lions here in New Hampshire so I guess a local government conspiracy. John. MicroBios. Now that to me seemed to indicate that they had done the secondary workup that in my opinion proved the existence of probably a disperse or possibly from South Dakota like the one in 2011. Peter Biello: This is the exchange on an HP yard today we're talking about the mysterious elusive majestic Mystic Mountain Lion. But having read a bit of information about his cougar there are a darker subspecies. Sue Morse: The big cat really commands the utmost respect not so much fear but fascination. Caller: Hey guys how you doing. Right. Now Bobcat is a completely different species. Despite numerous reports, the NH Fish and Game Department continues to have no physical evidence of mountain lion presence in the state. I saw that had this giant the bobcat had this giant sweeping which is John Bobcat don't have big sweeping tails. I think as Pat was saying you know 35 to 50 pounds on a male be reasonable range whereas mountain lions you're up to 100 110 maybe even 130 pounds on a big male. Lots of people have stories about them, people have them on their game cameras I mean its kind of a thing. We discuss what residents may have been seeing and what breeding mountain lion pairs would mean for our ecosystem. Theres tracks everywhere. Patrick Tate: I would say well when social media first started they picked up the hoaxes became much more prevalent in the last four or five years hoaxes have died down completely. This is the exchange. It's you know I recognized their report and. The evidence for the 1874 cougar is so hard that it's held in a display case in the State Museum of . I've had a number of people call up and say I found a scout in the woods and I want it DNA identified. Patrick Tate: So the individuals can say that but for an agency that's based on science and what not to to go off with no evidence and then get into that giant debate and all these other issues and put credibility at risk I don't think that would be a great path to take. Patrick Tate: I've had hunters hang deer carcasses forbidding wildlife entries. But if people are still seeing mountain lions, why is the state and federal government seeking to COVER IT UP!? Sam Evans Brown. The American Lion The Saber tooth Tiger and this was the one that survived. So so it is possible in Maine to still to to to have one but you have to be sort of professional handler as it were. Fear for others and those two polarizing opinions on the situation is what I believe brings out mystique and Sam you know I take kind of a long view on this. If it's someone that has an illegal captive animal that is accustomed to humans those leave a lot of evidence because they want to go around humans to find food meaning they're used to being fed by humans. Peter Biello: Yeah well what do you think Pat is. It was a 140-pound male mountain lion, the first confirmed in Connecticut in more than 100 years. These were normal everyday folks. The species that once inhabited the Northeast, known as the eastern mountain lion, is now extinct. Residents from Bedford to Berlin have been reporting sightings for years. Still, it's been over 100 years since the last mountain lion was killed east of the Mississippi, except for a patch of them down in Florida, where there are supposed to be 100 to 200 still living. Since then, there have been a handful of confirmed mountain. So I would put this in the category of sort of like shark attacks right. A trail of DNA evidence collected over the years shows this particular mountain lion had traveled through New York, Michigan, Wisconsin and Minnesota. It's got a a smudge of black and bobcats and links just don't have that we don't have any other cards. Women control our lives. So Michael follows with the question. Is that typically what was happening there. Patrick Tate: So it's interesting it's brought up. So maybe a good pet for you but not for your neighbor if you just stop by unannounced. Peter Biello: Well hey Rob. Give today. That's pretty elaborate. On a dirt road. I'm Peter Biello in for Laura NOI. OK. Rick van de Poll: Rick and I would add that if a mountain lion male takes up residence and successfully finds a female as pets there's gonna be a lot more evidence there will be like deer carcasses up in trees and territorial marking and claw marks and tracks and it you know dispersal is gonna be very tough to see or observed but residential parrots a totally different story. It's unfortunate that that kind of thing happens as often as it does. By, March 2023 Fund Drive Rules and Regulations, Persons with disabilities who need assistance accessing NHPR's FCC public files, please contact us at publicfile@nhpr.org. Your support makes this news available to everyone. I just don't understand the mechanism for how that would happen. Wed love to be part of the first verified sighting. Using DNA and physical evidence, state environmental officials said they determined that the animal . Sam Evans-Brown: And second the evidence required is is you know pretty pretty tough to gather. Do you get a lot of these these these things that end up being hoaxes. If you go on YouTube and search mount lion Pat you can see people patent their hundred pound kiddie like its regular mascot cat. For instance, Floridas wildlife officials have a similar ghost cat: the black panther. If it's just in the middle of a greenfield you can't prove anything. The western mountain lion lives in a more of a grassland open area now so to blend in with a very lighted situation here in the Northeast we are very shadowy dark situation because of the forest and our cats wear a darker brownish reddish color than what they were and they were also smaller than what the western mountain lion is. Peter Biello: So if they were female mountain lions here they would be more males just because that's what they're looking for. However, as far as I can tell theres no Deep State Conspiracy to cover up a breeding population of cougars in the Granite State. for some excitement. He studied Politics and Spanish at Bates College, and before reporting was variously employed as a Spanish teacher, farmer, bicycle mechanic, ski coach, research assistant, a wilderness trip leader and a technical supporter. A young male cougar weighing about 40 pounds was shot and killed this week near Whiteclay, Nebraska. It's good to talk to you. New Hampshire Public Radio | But on the other side of that coin there is this sense that there have been so many sightings locally and you guys Patrick you might recall the name the Wyndham McCracken she kind of turned herself into a local authority off authorities the right word but she was very dedicated to this. More than 450 Facebook users as of Thursday had shared a photo Marc Weir posted Wednesday showing the big cat and . The term is because mascots notwithstanding right that they're referred to with a lot of different terms and sometimes they can be confused with a lot of different terms. We're gonna talk about sightings in this part of the program as well we'd love to hear your story. Peter Biello: Listeners give us a call if you have a question or a story of a sighting 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7. Almost all species disperse greater distances than females. Rick van de Poll: Yes. He played a pivotal role and he battled for recognition. Me Im willing to believe its possible that there are some out there. We had six copies printed out each. Peter Biello: Rick I believe you did mention that that they do leave carcasses up in the tree from time to time but are there any other species known in New Hampshire to do this on a regular basis. Rick van de Poll: Rick your thoughts. DNA from scat or from fur, a clear track that is confirmed by an expert, or a photo that clearly shows a mountain lion. I hope she's listening and she had spoke to a lot of different people ended up having a couple of sightings of her alone without sort of by accident. In Vermont, it was 1881. Pat humans people leave deer carcasses up in trees. Reviewing the evidence, the U.S. Well within there. Less than a year later I found a scat on the swamp range and I was working at the time with a fellow at the Michigan wildlife habitat Federation. All they think it traveled north through Canada up you know crossed across the Great Lakes and then and then down again through New York State. Caller: Are probably. Peter Biello: So a little bit of nostalgia maybe for it for a better world embodied in the mountain lion. So I did a bunch of research and all the documentation I found was there art are not any pieces of DNA of Eastern online. As far as I could tell there was a positive DNA sequence coming from the scat sample Patrick. Rick van de Poll: Well a report that you know as John Harrigan up north has in co-ops County for about 15 years I kept track of reports and people would call me and tell me where they saw the mountain lion they thought they saw it and it varied right from you know downtown villages all the way to remote highlands of the North Country and and everywhere in between. It's listed as population of least concern. If youve got photo trap evidence of a Mountain Lion, send it in, and we'll send it along to the appropriate state or federal agency! So I will just say this is a big reason why there have not been confirmed sightings I think is that the evidence required first. Rick van de Poll: 80 90. There have been several alleged sightings of mountain lions in New Hampshire recently. That's why we always go back to the physical evidence to support what they're reporting. Caller: I do. We've met Fish and Game's BURDEN OF PROOF. So and so they so they do get pretty involved. You know I think it's there's a lady Holly Ernst out in California who has done a lot of the genotyping of mountain lions in Northern California the ones that are of course most people have heard about taking down hikers bikers etc. So and so the idea that they can follow up on every individual sighting is just crazy right. You need you need either a really good photograph or you need you know fresh scat that can be sent to a lab out West that can they can be identified there. Well they are the same. Thanks for calling. And they were using all the habitat. I was at the Sentinel as a reporter there for about four years and during that time I probably wrote close to a half dozen stories or so on this topic including a lengthy feature at one point that in which I spoke to several people from around the banana region claimed to have seen mountain lions that at one time or another. Peter Biello: From New Hampshire Public Radio I'm Peter Biello in for Lark Knoy and this is the exchange. Patrick Tate: It became a very interesting investigation over time because it started becoming. They were able to do all that by genetics. So Marty can you see what I'm getting at is the public sees different names and thinks that they're different animals but it's all the same animal. Let's look for other evidence. The views expressed in this program are those of the individuals and not those of an HP are its board of trustees or its underwriters. As I tried to get a picture of it so there was it was definitely we looked up all the pictures and it was definitely not a bobcat or anything else being it looked just like a mountain lion. A lot of times. State officials have said, over and over in recent years, that the eastern mountain lion has been completely wiped out from the Northeast. Sam Evans-Brown: Well first I want to sort of explain why what the theory is but then also throw a bit of cold water on it because I don't think there's much much logic behind it but essentially is that if fish and game were to acknowledge that there was a population of Mount lions in the state there's a chance that something like a listing under the federal Endangered Species Act might happen and then there'd be you know some they'd have to put a plan in place to protect the species there'd be you know restrictions put on development. The big cat has been extinct here since the mid-1800s. And there are thousands of mountain lions killed every year legally through hunting, and there have been untold tens of thousands of mountain lions killed by hunters over the last hundred years, says Mark Elbroch, the Puma Program Director for Panthera, a global wild cat conservation organization, So even the folks who live with mountain lions still have a fancy and see something thats not there to me thats incredible.. Peter Biello: Well Karl Jarvis a former reporter for The King's son Nile thank you very much for for calling in and sharing your perspective and to his point Patrick T. I mean yes we haven't met the scientific burden of proof here in New Hampshire as far as physical evidence is is concerned but is there room at Fish and Game For A kind of an informal nod to all of the people who have somehow convinced themselves and possibly some others that yeah there may be occasional sightings here. Peter Biello: Well I want to ask Patrick about one of these stories a few years ago you had a story about someone who claimed to. It was killed in Lee New Hampshire in 1853. Sam Evans-Brown has been working for New Hampshire Public Radio since 2010, when he began as a freelancer. Peter Biello: Yeah. Patrick Tate: So Cougar Mountain Lion katama. Thanks for taking my call. Okay. Patrick Tate New Hampshire Fish and Game Wildlife Biologist thanks very much for being here this morning really appreciate it. Through DNA they approximate area in the United States or North America where I was born. (Cue the X-Files music: The Government is denying the cougars exist!) This decision was primarily for nerdy phylogeny reasons, though, because the eastern cougar probably never existed. From came from out west they tracked it all the way back to the Black Hills in the Dakotas. Pat what do you think the mystique of the mountain lion. And listeners this has been a lively conversation we're sorry we didn't get to all the the e-mailed comments and the phone calls your stories are appreciated even if we didn't get a chance to hear them today. "Of those three to five reports, one. Okay. Does not test random Scouts. Osga's group of volunteers sent hair samples. They reported seeing the big tail and everything everything. The sightings have not been confirmed; in fact, there have been no confirmed mountain lion sightings in New Hampshire since one was shot and killed on the seacoast in the 1850s, said Patrick Tate . Peter Biello: Yeah some of what she was saying sounds like it would require getting pretty close or at least having a nice zoom lens right Sam like. Patrick Tate: So I just got to throw a little interesting side note in this. I believe I saw one that's fine and I'm not looking for an immediate story. It was determined that Mountain Lion came from the Dakotas across the Northern part of our country . The engineers Dan Colgan our senior producer is Allan Grimm. Email exchange it an HP fraud org or give us a call 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7. Incredible sighting and I called him the fish and game and they immediately sent me to a website to look at all the bobcat pictures. Support for an age PR comes from you our listeners. Our guests today Patrick Tate New Hampshire Fish and Game Wildlife biologist Sam Evans Brown host of an HP podcast outside in. So here we have you know a very qualified biologist who who found a print took a plaster cast found a scat send it to a university. Caller: Absolutely. Michael Brindley is our program manager our producers our Jessica Hunt and Christina Phillips and our theme music was composed by Bob Lord. But my experience was that the majority of these accounts could not be taken lightly. 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